Episode 45 – Kai-Friedrich Niermann (Germany and Cannabis)

This podcast audio has been transcribed by an automatic transcriber.

Fred Rocafort  0:07 

Global law and global business go hand in hand, but never seem to keep pace with each other. The importance on the global stage of developing and developed nations waxes and wanes, while consumption and interconnectedness steadily increase all the while laws and regulations change incessantly requiring businesses to stay nimble. But how do we make sense of it all? Welcome to Global Law and Business hosted by Harris Sliwoski International Business attorneys. I’m Fred Rocafort.

 

Jonathan Bench  0:37 

And I’m Jonathan Bench. Every week, we take a targeted look at legal and economic developments in locales around the world as we try to decipher global trends in law and business with the help of international experts. We cover continents, countries, regimes, governance, finance, legal developments, and whatever is trending on Twitter. We covered the important the seemingly unimportant, the relatively simple and the complex.

 

Fred Rocafort  1:02 

We hope you enjoy today’s podcast. Please connect with us on social media to comment and suggest future topics and guests.

 

Jonathan Bench  1:21 

Today we are joined by Kai – Friedrich Niermann, a business and corporate lawyer from Germany where he has practiced for almost 16 years. Kai is very familiar with the interconnectivity between national and European regulations, especially in regard to consumer protection products safety and emerging new cannabis products. He has engaged in advocacy relating to cannabis beginning in the early stages of his studies at Philips University Marburg, when the German Supreme Court ruled that small amounts of cannabis should not be criminalized. Afterwards, medical cannabis was legalized. Kai started a legal blog, cannabis dot legal on all the relevant new developments in the emerging cannabis market and has become a legal expert especially regarding CBD products. He regularly speaks at international cannabis conferences on topics of the German European legal framework. He has published articles on the prohibition partners platform and was cited by the cannabis law report as well as the Canadian Globe and Mail. Kai co founded the International Cannabis Bar Association with an event in Berlin in April 2019. He consults major CBD and medical cannabis companies as well as a reputable online knowledge portal for medical cannabis and CBD. Kaiwelcome to global law and business.

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  2:31 

Thanks for having me on the show.

 

Fred Rocafort  2:33 

Kai, welcome. You’re not the first German guests that we have on the podcast. That honor has gone to someone else. But you are, however, the first German who actually lives and works in Germany. So we’d like to take advantage of this opportunity to ask you, before we get into into the subject of cannabis, more broadly, maybe give us an overview of what is happening in Germany, things that we should be looking out for as informed citizens, as I recall hearing that you’re going to have elections soon. I mean, I could be I could be wrong about that. But if you could give us that big picture overview of what’s happening in the country, we’d really appreciate it.

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  3:15 

Yeah, why nothing much is going on because we are in lockdown since early November. And the lockdown was deep into by first of December, where all the shops and super and stores were closed. So really pretty. Really a sad, sad face of the of the pandemic right now here, the numbers are going down, we have an index of 50 right now 59 per seven days per 100,000 people. And the everyone is afraid of the of the of the virus mutants, mutations from from from England. So we are closing the borders to our Eastern neighbors right now. And we don’t see any chance in the near future of getting back to normal life here, maybe in summertime, and the vaccines are rolling out to the whole part of the population. So and we had a very strong winter with minus 15 degrees and snow over for two weeks now. Yeah. So this was a dark, silent winter till now. But 2021 is going to be a very, very interesting year for Germany. The federal elections as you will never mentioned correctly. Coming in September 21. So seven months to go for the federal elections. And Germany likes to have Chancellor or prime ministers. We call the chancellor for very, very long time. So it started with Konrad Adenauer in 1949 he was 16 years in charge, then there was a grand coalition three years. But then we rebrand for four years and then anguish for 10 years almost. And then hammered cold again with 16 years. And now Angela Merkel with 16 years again, when she stepped back in September, we will see a drastic change in politics here in Germany in September, we expect a completely new government, probably with the participation of the Green Party, going together with the conservatives 5, 6, 8 years down the road. This was not imaginable. But things have really changed in Germany, we will get a very liberal, or even a more liberal future than we have right now. And the greens start to work on different topics like climate change, like the cannabis policy, we will probably see a cannabis reformed cannabis policy, we can talk about that a little bit more in depth on the coming minutes. So yeah, that’s that’s what we have to expect from from 2021. And we hopefully will get over these, these pandemics pretty soon.

 

Jonathan Bench  6:10 

Fred and I are very interested in kind of the geopolitical situation all around the world. So if we can take a step back, and kind of frame Germany historically, you know, post World War Two Germany was in in rebuilding has been a major economic driver for the European Union. Certainly, that comes with a lot of political clout as well. So, like you said, with the changeover with Chancellor Merkel stepping down later this year, we’d love to hear what you see happening within the EU politically, is Germany’s role in the last 5070 years. Is that changing? Do you see tension between Germany and and other allies? You know, some jockeying for who’s really going to be in control of EU policies and how the EU acts in the in the coming decades?

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  7:01 

For sure, yeah, for Germany, it’s, it’s historically, always a problem to take any leadership within the European Union. We saw that in the financial crisis, as we had to handle the Greece, the Greek problem is the Troika came from the lead by a German, financial, or finance minister scheibner. saying the Greek what they have to do and what they don’t have, what they can’t do. And they, we saw these pictures from Angela Merkel in Greek newspapers, and comparing them with Iraq, Hitler, and stuff like that. But that’s, of course, a problem because we have a problematic history in the EU in Europe. And we Germany is always reluctant to take really the leading role within the European Union, because they believe we do it, but we have to do it with a lot of diplomacy to, to really keep everything together. And, and France and Germany is a strong team within the European Union. And the decision processes within within the European Union are very slow. But in the end, I’m always surprised again, that they find a solution, they always find the solution, except for the Brexit. They couldn’t convince the Brits to stay within the European Union. But even so difficult and complex issues like Poland and Hungary with the rule of law problem and financing of the EU, and they always work something out for the European Union. And of course, everyone is looking to Germany but I think the the German government, the Germany who officials acting for Germany, they’re doing a good job, they always want to be diplomatic, and find diplomatic solutions. And even our foreign minister is going out in the world and always demanding diplomacy and talks and peaceful solutions. And that’s a problem as well with not a triangle with the natural what we what we had, he was always demanding more costs for military, the expenses from Germany. Yeah, we have to work something out within the European Union to have a common maybe a common force or more options to work together within the European Union. And that’s to take care of our defense. And that’s very, very complicated. Yeah, we will see how this will turn out Europe has to come together more than we are right now in these questions to compete with Moscow and with China and stuff. Yeah, so exciting the next years what’s what’s going to happen?

 

Jonathan Bench  9:58 

So what’s the word In Germany and surrounding countries about the US presidential election, is everyone kind of generally more optimistic, neutral waiting to see what the what the new administration will be doing, or, or is it not big news?

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  10:14 

Oh, yes. Oh, yes, I have. I have CNN, on my television here. And I watched it. Around the sixth of January, I was it was on all the time. And we, we were really closely following all the events till the 21. Joe Biden was installed as the 46th president. And it was a big relief all over Germany, all over Europe that the new administration came in. So and we all expect that we will come back to normal terms in respect of diplomacy and transatlantic relations, and the fact that you just can talk again together on a normal, prudent level for partners, which we have been 70 years since the verbose stock. So yeah, the big news and big relief here.

 

Fred Rocafort  11:13 

Kai, you mentioned Brexit. And I’d like to talk briefly about how the UK is departure is going to impact the EU, specifically, from the point of view of obviously, it’s going to have a lot of impacts. But specifically in terms of the role that Germany and France play. I mean, I think it’s fair to say that the UK was always a weird sort of player, right? I mean, they were they were important, but at the same time, not particularly committed to the European idea. But certainly they were pulling the EU in a certain direction while they were there. Now they’re no longer part of the Union. So how do you see the post British EU adjusting? And is that automatically going to mean a greater role for Berlin and Paris? Or might there be other countries that want to take advantage of this opportunity to shape things differently?

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  12:10 

I don’t know. I mean, the Brexit as a result for the UK is that they are not formally member of the EU anymore, but they have to follow all the rules. Still, some exceptions, but overall, they still want to enter the European market. So they have to follow and comply with the up new rules, nothing changed, but they don’t have any right to discuss the suit anymore. That’s, in fact, the result. So they didn’t really win a lot by taking the Brexit and all discussions all the time, the last 20 years, 2030 years. The The biggest problem always was the UK, they had a different opinion, they wanted to do it in another way that they want to get a discount. And it was really, really problematic to have the UK and within the European Union. But then in sort of find financing and economic rules and stuff. I don’t think that in terms of National Defense Policy, that there will be a change. I haven’t heard anything about that. So we will always be some sort of European Union, in terms of that, that will that will last over the the economic issues, I think. And to answer your question, has the UK always had a special opinion and a special role. There was also a relief somehow that European Union is now on its own, and don’t have to deal with these extra views from the from the UK anymore.

 

Fred Rocafort  13:50 

Thank you for that. I’m sure a lot of our listeners will be relieved as we turn away from the subject of the European Union, right, I’m sure, especially for those of you in Europe, it’s something that’s ever present and probably less interesting than it is for us as as outsiders. But turning now to more personal topics. You have been a lawyer since 2005. We have a lawyers roundtable today on the show, as we often do, and I’m always fascinated by the stories that different people have regarding how it is that they joined the profession. So I’d love to hear about how you decided to become a lawyer what what drove you to the profession, and we’ll be focusing a lot on your work as a cannabis lawyer but as often happens with with lawyers who are doing interesting things, there’s there’s a backstory and there’s all the years of other work. I think we all have that. I mean, I think if you were to ask most of the lawyers at our firm, we discover that there was a time when they were doing very different things. So what type of law did you practice initially? And then how did things change? To take it to where you are today,

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  15:01 

I wanted to change the word of course, is every law student who wants in the first place, fight for human rights and know the law and make the world a better place and stuff like that. But then you see the reality and how hard it is to study the law than to see the underlying problems of society and to see the dogmatic issues and how justice may be treated badly by dogmatic prerequisites requisites, the law has. So, then, of course, like every law student facing hard times, it is the right thing for me to stop. And, but then finally, you you work your way through that first state exam and, and then the second bar exam comes, it’s another two years and two years of your life have been lost. For the for the exams, you can say, and I learned once that in the military, you you are broken, and you are put back together by your officers. In the law studio, you are broken, but you have to put back yourself by yourself. So you have to repair yourself. And if you manage to do that, you’re you’re the lawyer, your lawyer, you can handle you can handle cases and can handle emotions and situations and stuff. And so yeah, and then I started to work in as a lawyer for commercial law for small and medium enterprises, small and medium sized enterprises, the family offices in Palawan. It was a boring life but always looking since my studies at the cannabis development and then Germany legalized medical cannabis in 2017 that have started to block on all these new developments. CBD came up nobody knew at the end of 2017, what was CBD? There are only a couple handful of early adopters. And the legal framework for CBD was there was no idea about what how to treat CBD. CBD extract CBD oils, CBD flowers, which are right now one of my focus in this month in these days CBD flowers. I can explain later. So and then I started to work on this blog and published articles and got invited to to the njbiz conference in Toronto. Then I was invited to Washington to the national cannabis Association, the cannabis Law Institute, in the large washing laundry universe University in Washington. And the first clients came and since  16 18 months, I’m only consulting CBD and medical cannabis companies and consulting companies all over the world who are interested in entering the German market.

 

Jonathan Bench  18:24 

So okay, I’ve got two questions first is is a comment your comment about how the law study of law breaks you down, and you have to put yourself together my first semester of law school, I was actually at George Washington University in Washington, DC. And it was it was a shock all around that so many for so many reasons. And I remember being overwhelmed with classes, and just stress right, and I got to the point where I got sick, and one of my ears was so clogged that I couldn’t hear out of it for three days. But I didn’t want to stop and go to the doctor because I felt like I would get behind in my classes even farther. Right? It was just, I felt like I was perpetually dropping into a hole. And it took it took quite a bit of time that first semester to feel like you know, to gain my my own confidence back in myself as someone who could learn, you know, learn and do hard things. Right. And not that undergraduate studies in the US weren’t difficult but but in the US once you get to graduate school, it’s often quite a bit more difficult than than undergraduate. So certainly that certainly resonates with me. And I’m curious, Fred and I feel the same kind of inquiries at our law firm. A lot of inbound and outbound work countries all over the world who want to be involved in the cannabis market in the US. What would you say are some trends you’ve seen in inquiries which countries which continents are are particularly interested in the EU market?

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  19:40 

Most of the time I’m spent working on the CBD, the CBD market, the CBD. problematic. There’s the novel foods. Maybe you’ve heard of enough food regulation by the European Union. The European Union decided early 2019 that CBD extracts CBD oil. I’m over food and needs to have a special security check till it is allowed to, to come to on the market to be marketable in the European Union. We have the European industrial hemp Association in Europe, and the legal adviser of this industry association. And after the decision of the European Union that hemp oil, CBD oil is a novel food, they came up with the idea of a novel food joint application. And we are organizing this Do not be fooled join application, I’m in charge for the for the legal construct of this, of this association of this consortium. And there you see that every company from all over the world, Canada, us, Spain, New Zealand, Australia, they are all coming out to join this consortium pair, pay their special contribution pay their membership fees for the association and want to be part of this association. We have 200 members right now, we are trying to raise three to 3.5 million euros to finance extensive studies with human exposure with animal testing to prove the safety of CBD and especially of THC and food. And this is a long process three years very expensive, very expensive. And in the end, this will open up the CBD market in Europe, finally. And then the market will be able to unfold this its full capacity or food option or full potential. Okay. And yeah, that’s that’s attracting companies from all over the world right now.

 

Jonathan Bench  21:59 

And so you were also one of the founding members of the International Cannabis Bar Association, right. We call that INCBA. Here in the US, I think it’s because we’re lazy. We don’t like saying full names. Can you tell us a little bit more about INCBA about why you formed it and what it’s doing and how it can be useful?

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  22:18 

Before it was the National Cannabis Bar Association. Founded I guess in 2015, in the US, founding members, for example, Mary Shapiro from the voglauer from from the west coast, Christopher Davis, the managing director, the Shabnam Malik was founding member. And of course, it was in US legal professional association by that time. And it still is, it still is, you could always you may also can say that it is too much West Coast lawyers out there, because California had a strong demand for forming an Lawyers Association to be able to fight and protect and enhance Thomas balsa foster the the legal interests of the legal profession. But then on the other US states came came into the Saudi legalization programs. So the I was first involved with input ncba in 2018 in Washington. And then the idea came up to to extend expand the reach of this association because in the future, the supply chain and the business will be internationally as more and more states are going to legalize cannabis. We saw that in Canada, we saw that in Hawaii. We see that now in Mexico, we see that in Luxembourg, they all have agreed on legalization and many companies are coming. We have really strong the debates in the UK about legalizing in France as a governing commission consulting the government recommending cannabis legalization and in Germany we have the Green Party strongly in favor of legalization and if they will play a role in the next government in in September. After September, we will see that they will install the cannabis Control Act in in the best case. And so there is a need to have also an international dimension Putting lawyers together on the one hand to, to, to enhance their their business to make context easily available for for different nations for different states. And whatever want you to agree on rules are to exchange experience how legalization was implemented in the different states and the different use the chance and to learn from each other. And I was really impressed as I went to Washington. So these are the sessions. And the whole, the lawyers are the colleagues from different law firms, but frankly, sharing knowledge, they are all at the same common attitude that they were building up in new market or that they are building up a new market and that it is useful and absolutely necessary to share knowledge to work together. And I was quite impressed. So I said, Okay, that’s, that’s why I want to be part of this. And then we decided to, yeah, to go international. We are just at the beginning of this, it’s still it is us focused in association. But we have more and more international members and the annual event at the cannabis Law Institute, there’s always one day reserved for international issues. So we are talking about aspects of the European Union. We last October, we were discussing the single convention and the interstate modification procedure, for example, how states can work together when making business when they have legalized, how to circumvent the provisions of the single convention where international trade is tricky, regulated, and legal aspects like like like, yeah, this may be an important work in the future for international trade. And I just can recommend any lawyer to look at the website share the association and profit from it.

 

Fred Rocafort  27:21 

Kai earlier when we were talking about the the upcoming election in Germany, you you alluded to possible changes to cannabis policy that might come as a result of that election. And that’s one of the intersections that that I’m always interested in, you know, the connection between electoral politics and cannabis policy and I find myself following obscure elections around the world and curious to see what what changes there will be to to cannabis policy and just makes it a little bit more more interesting in some cases, although usually I find these these elections interesting. Anyway, but what do you see as some potential developments that that might occur in Germany and the EU regarding cannabis, whether they’re connected or not to the upcoming election? What is in your view, cannabis is future in Europe and maybe going a little bit further, as you may know, in some places in the US legalization efforts are going beyond cannabis. Right. So you have this consideration of whether there are other substances that could potentially be legalized. Do you see any room for for for that in Europe?

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  28:29 

So we have the medical cannabis act is in place in 2017. And right now we have about 100,000 patients. Having prescriptions for medical cannabis metamath is a Medical Cannabis Patient, then you have to obtain the medical cannabis from the pharmacy. You have to have a prescription from a doctor first. And we started with 1000 medical cannabis patients and now we have 100,000 the three years after or four years after right now, this market volume is very small. Still, we’re talking about 150 million revenue of sales for medical cannabis in Germany. We’re talking about 10 tonnes of dried flowers in power to Germany. But the market is still in development. The patient’s numbers rise steadily, not extraordinary, not know what what is it what particular the epidemic, the extensive extensive, but this will be a market when the market is slowly developing. And that’s the time that every European country will set up a medical cannabis program. So they’re still plays and still is in steady growth for investors and for companies to participate in that. That’s the one market The other market is the CBD market. CBD exploded. People want CBD, they buy it, they buy it illegally right now, because we have the novel food issue as I explained there is their police rates going after small hemp shops selling CBD stuffs, we have the big retailers are getting distribution bands every now and then then have to take the products off the shelves. I put it up in the different labeling again, it’s a back and forth. And this problem won’t be solved till the novel food authorization by the EU Commission will be granted in three years time. We have the CBD flowers are also very very popular. I have three big criminal proceedings for at least right now going on, where people are accused for trading of 13 to 15 kilograms of CBD flowers of industrial hemp flowers. Like between like, like THC. But for smokeable purposes, of course. But we have to alter the situation that they are legally in Austria, Belgium and Luxembourg. And then we can reoccur on the on the principle of free movement of goods within the European Union. Like the kind of a case which was decided in November last year. That’s the second part of the of the market. And the third part of the market will be the legal legalization. And the essay explained there was nothing going on from 1994 to 2017. And this reform 2017 took away the old bad stigma of cannabis. Now 10 years down the road. Everyone said oh cannabis is evil, you get addicted, you will die, you will take cocaine and heroin afterwards. You start with that it has vanished. It’s over. It’s stuck. So cannabis is acknowledged as a medicine as a treatment as an alternative treatment. And we have 5 million cannabis users on a regular basis. And in Germany, we have 600 to 800 tons in the black market. We have this equivalence and market volume from six to 8 billion euros in Germany low only traded in the black market, no control, no federal control of the quality of this stuff. No tax revenues. No wages no properly paid wages for the shopkeepers and store staff.

 

And the black market the organized crime is mainly taking part of this are taking advantage of this. And we have 180,000 criminal proceedings every year, which has to be stopped right after they reach the prosecutor’s office. But the police has to go after them because they are obliged to do so. So many capacities of the police of the law enforcement abound by chasing the harmless status, you know, and everyone sees that right now we are in the position that everyone sees that this is unnecessary. This is a human rights issue for a huge part of the population, which is not allowed to take their ride of intoxication or a very harmless level. And we see that the state doesn’t generate tax revenues from all kinds of of the businesses would, which would be possible. And we see that this is happening in Canada. This is happening in the US in the states which have legalized so far. And that’s the reason why the Green Party has prepared a complete draft for legalization. They call it the cannabis Control Act, it already was discussed in boost act two times and the greens are still strong in the polls. And if they will become part of the next government. They will demand that this law will be agreed on the probably in the best case in January, February next year. And then there will be a face of two years where Germany has to take care of his international obligations within the single convention. And the industry can prepare for the new rules. And this will be a very, very interesting phase for everyone, for the international players for the international companies. And we’re looking Of course for the US and for Canada because they have the most experience with new cannabis products like vape pans, like formulations like how to produce a chocolate bar with a standardized 10 milligram THC content. And the 600 to 800 tonnes, they have to come somewhere from an illegal from the black market, but from a regular market. So this is really a very interesting how to how to secure the supply chain. And many, many, many opportunities in investment for four to four chains for retail chains, for retail stores for wholesale opportunities and stuff like that. So keep a close eye on on this development in Germany, if that comes to the market will be opened and the opportunities will be endless. And to your to your question. We have discussions or debates on legalizing every illegal drug because we see that the is the same problem is with cannabis, cocaine’s very popular. We have substitution programs for everything, but very limited very restricted to only very severe cases. We don’t have this debate like in Oregon legalized psilocybin stuff is so we don’t have that right now. I don’t see that. At the moment. We at the moment we have too much to do. We are too occupied with legalizing cannabis because this has to be the focus for the month.

 

Jonathan Bench  36:28 

Kai, we always like to end our podcast with recommendations from our guests. And certainly let me thank you for the time you spent with us today. It’s always fun to hear perspectives from other attorneys on the other side of the world. And certainly there’s no shortage of things going on in Germany this year. So we’d like to ask what are your recommendations for our listeners, something you’ve read recently, something you’ve listened to something you’ve watched that you think would be interesting for the audience to look into.

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  36:57 

What I always can recommend is, of course, the deepest shades of house show. It’s by a German is by last bear and Rob is living in the San Francisco Bay area for almost 20 years. It’s deeper shades of house, the best house hound most advanced and sound I’ve ever heard. It’s always worthwhile listening. And of course, if you’re interested in the German developments, I can recommend to you crowd invest dot d. This is an online news magazine and producing and presenting all the latest developments on the medical cannabis scene for interesting for companies, which actual numbers interviews with German CEOs from the German companies, which are producing the domestic elevators in Germany, for example, are the big companies are politicians. And of course, if you’re interested in the legalizing development in Germany, you have to look at the how dot A dot.a.tv they are having a weekly news magazine, all the developments, what what is going on what who say what in terms of legalization? And what’s the state of of the of the debate.

 

Jonathan Bench  38:15 

Great. Thanks, Kai. So Fred, what recommendation do you have for us today?

 

Fred Rocafort  38:19 

So I’ve been watching the fourth season of the crown on on Netflix. And the first thing that I’d like to say is it’s not a documentary. There’s a lot of people out there that seem to think that this is a faithful retelling of everything that happened with the British royal family, it probably isn’t, we just don’t know. But the production values are really good. I mean, the cinematography is great. Most of the actors are pretty good. It’s an entertaining way of reviewing, Well, certainly British history over the last, you know, 5060 years, but also world history in general where we’re now at the point where I’m at the point where the we’re in the lead up to the to the Falklands War. So so it’s good to see the British perspective on that and how the UK Government both the Buckingham Palace and the actual elected government dealt with it. So it’s just a great example of why I’m enjoying the the series beyond the more gossipy speculative aspects, you know if you know what was happening inside this royal marriage or that one, so I’d like to recommend the crown. That’s my recommendation for this week. And what about you, Jonathan?

 

Jonathan Bench  39:33 

This week, I’m recommending something a little more unusual than what I usually recommend. I’ve been spending some time the last few weeks reading through my grandfather’s journal, and he was born in the early 19 hundred’s and wrote his journal when he was in his 70s. So this would have been in the in the early late 70s, early 80s, I believe so it’s very fun to read. What he put together memories from his life. he typed with two fingers on his typewriter. And, and I also want to recommend, I recommend that because I think this pandemic year has caused us all to reflect a little more on, on life and death. And I always feel connected to it, certainly to my children, but also to my ancestors, as I go through, you know, go through that thinking about what what I’m doing here on this earth and the kind of legacy that I’m leaving behind. I try to write in my journal periodically and hope that at some point I go through and, and can summarize things in a meaningful way for my, for my children and grandchildren and others who come after me so. So I recommend that if you have a, you know, if you have some family history, some old pictures even that you haven’t looked into you have, you know, parents and grandparents who are still alive who may not have told their stories, that certainly that’s a worthwhile way to spend time in between binge watching shows on on Amazon and Netflix. And then I want to recommend two apps. One is called family tree app. The other is called the memories app. They’re both put on by family search. And so you can look you know, get your information get in and you can see how, where you link up with the rest of your family. And then the memories app is used to record memories in real time. And so I’ve used that with with grandparents and conversations so I can just turn on the microphone and record their stories. I’m asking them questions about their life. So a little more introspective recommendation this week, but certainly worth your time. If you’re so inclined. Kai, I want to thank you again for spending time with us today on our show. We look forward to catching up with you again in the future and seeing how the election went this year and and how the how the cannabis market is doing in Germany and in the EU.

 

Kai-Friedrich Niermann  41:47 

Thank you very much for having me.

 

Jonathan Bench  41:52 

We hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. We look forward to connecting with you on social media to continue discussing developments in global law in business. This podcast was produced by Harris Sliwoski with executive producer Madeline Williams music composed by Stephen Schmitt. Tune in next week for another episode. We’ll see you then.

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai